In this podcast episode of Chasing Life With Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Dr. Francis Collins, an esteemed scientist and former director of the National Institutes of Health, shares his perspective on the perceived conflict between religion and science. Collins, who is also an evangelical Christian, challenges the notion that these two worldviews are inherently incompatible. Having navigated both science and faith since the age of 27, he emphasizes that he has seamlessly integrated these perspectives throughout his life.
Collins, who was once Gupta’s genetics professor at the University of Michigan Medical School, discusses how his belief in God enriches his scientific endeavors. He describes the process of mapping the human genome as a profound experience that offered him insights into God’s creation. Viewing scientific discovery as a form of worship, Collins sees the laboratory as a sacred space where he gains glimpses into the mind of a higher power.
Raised in a non-religious household, Collins initially identified as an atheist until a pivotal encounter with a patient during medical school prompted him to reconsider his beliefs. This encounter led him on a two-year exploration that ultimately led to his conversion to Christianity. Despite facing skepticism for his religious convictions, Collins’s dedication to his scientific work and leadership at NIH helped alleviate concerns about the intersection of his faith and professional responsibilities.
“No,” he stated, “when you’re functioning as a scientist, science is the tool you rely on. It is how you construct your arguments. You won’t suddenly interject, ‘If you refer to the Book of Matthew, Chapter 25, you’ll find the answer here.’ I may do that in my personal prayer life, but not in a scientific debate.” Collins’ unwavering faith in science contrasts with the shifting perspectives of some Americans, particularly amid the pandemic. Evolving data, inconsistent lockdown measures, misinformation, and other factors have led to a decline in trust that scientists are acting in the public’s best interest. “I became increasingly troubled by the ways in which truth, science, faith, and trust—traditional pillars for all of us—seem to be becoming unsettled, especially during Covid when the most glaring example was people’s skepticism of the vaccines,” Collins explained, detailing the motive behind his latest book, “The Road to Wisdom: On Truth, Science, Faith, and Trust.” “It was a wake-up call to realize that we have lost something vital in our journey towards wisdom, in determining what is true, who to trust, the essence of science, and the role of faith,” he added. “We have yet to fully grasp how this occurred and what measures we can take to prevent its recurrence, as distrust appears to be on the rise rather than decline.” Collins shared four key insights on faith in science and public trust during the pandemic. While the development of vaccines was a significant achievement, misinformation and distrust eroded public acceptance of them. Despite the remarkable speed of developing Covid vaccines, millions of Americans were hesitant to get vaccinated due to misinformation and distrust. An analysis by the Kaiser Family Foundation revealed that between June 2021 and March 2022, when vaccines were widely available, around 234,000 deaths could have been prevented. Collins emphasized the necessity of combining knowledge with experience, insights, common sense, and morality to attain wisdom. However, wisdom can be challenging to achieve, especially when faced with obstacles along the path.
In discussing his book “The Road to Wisdom,” Collins reflected on the concept of public trust and highlighted four key factors that influence how individuals make decisions regarding trust. He emphasized integrity as the first factor, questioning whether a source is perceived as honest and forthcoming. The second factor he mentioned was competence, focusing on whether the source truly understands the subject matter and has thoroughly examined all its complexities. The third factor, according to Collins, is humility, indicating whether a source is willing to acknowledge areas of uncertainty without overextending their expertise.
Collins noted that most people would agree with the importance of the first three factors. However, he underscored the significance of the fourth factor, which has become increasingly prominent: the tendency to trust sources based on whether they align with one’s own beliefs or affiliations. This inclination, Collins cautioned, could impact the acceptance of information, irrespective of its accuracy. He emphasized the need for individuals to recognize that facts remain valid regardless of their source and to avoid dismissing information solely due to its origin.
The erosion of the ability to distinguish factual information from sources outside one’s familiar network was identified by Collins as a concerning trend that can lead people astray. Restoring trust, he argued, is crucial for the future, particularly in the realm of science, which plays a vital role in societal progress. Collins highlighted the growing skepticism towards science as a hindrance to collective flourishing, emphasizing the necessity of rebuilding confidence in scientific principles.
Addressing the challenge of rebuilding trust, Collins proposed a process of humility, openness to feedback, and genuine engagement with differing perspectives. He stressed the importance of acknowledging past shortcomings, actively listening to those who have lost trust, and taking steps to regain credibility. Despite his optimism, Collins recognized the ongoing work required to reaffirm trust in truth, science, and faith for societal well-being.
Collins called for individual and collective action to reestablish a foundation built on these principles, emphasizing the crucial role of truth, science, and faith in fostering trust. He urged listeners to reflect on these ideals and commit to realigning themselves with these values. The discussion concluded with an invitation to tune in to future episodes of the Chasing Life podcast every Friday.
To stay updated with more news and newsletters from CNN, visit CNN.com and sign up for an account. Eryn Mathewson from CNN Audio contributed to this report.
